Disclaimer: The information contained on this site is for information purposes only, and may not apply to your situation. The author, publisher, distributor and provider provide no warranty about the content or accuracy of content enclosed. Information provided is subjective. Keep this in mind when reviewing this guide.
Neither the Publisher nor Author shall be liable for any loss of profit or any other commercial damages resulting from use of this guide.  All links are for information purposes only and are not warranted for content, accuracy, or any other implied or explicit purpose

CO-OWNERSHIP - IS IT A LIABILITY?

MANY AKC SHOW BREEDERS GO ON ABOUT HAVING CONTRACTS AND HOW UNETHICAL IT IS NOT TO. IN FACT THEY SPEND MUCH TIME AND ENERGY BASHING CERTAIN PEOPLE FOR THIS WHILE BOWING AT THE FEET OF MY FORMER CO-OWNER OF DRAKYI TIMBERLINE MOXIE. HE NEVER WROTE A CONTRACT (EXPLAINED BELOW) AND WHEN I HAD TO ASK HIM WHAT COOWNED MEANT WHEN MY PUPPY MONTHS OLD; HE FINALLY SENT A SHORT EMAIL. LATER HE BREACHED HIS EMAIL SIMPLY BECAUSE I WAS CONVERSING WITH THE NON AKC BREEDER HE DID NOT LIKEI WOULD HIGHLY ADVISE ANYBODY FROM DEALING WITH AN AKC SHOW BREEDER BASED ON MY EXPERIENCES WITH THEiR HYPOCRISY AND NASTINESS.

Based on my experiences with serveral breeders I do not recommend AKC breeders who breed multiple breeds and multiple litters. From my experiences I have found that AKC show breeders who do nothing but breed dogs for a living have lots of money riding on dogs and they seem to breed for looks rather than anything else. I have formed these opinions based on my direct experiences with these types and owning their dogs. I would stay as far away from these types of breeders as possible. Remember a dog bred for the show ring may not be the healthiest or best example of the breed. Often times "not". Read about Uri's Demodex, her breeder, and her pedigree here.

Going to shows I was surprised to discover that "show people" will use products to alter the color and thickness of the dog's coat. Tibetan Mastiffs are to be shown in their natural coats but this doesn't seem to be the case. Again, I think that people who make a "living" off selling puppies will go to extremes for "appearances"

"Blaming the victim" is prevalent within the Tibetan Mastiff community. These are my thoughts based on my experiences with "AKC Show breeders". I believe they want to "get rid of the competition". I would definitely stay clear of "AKC show breeders" because of what I have learned from them personally. "Show breeders will be very nice to 'newbies," but they are cut-throat; just like the movie "Best in Show"! It is very disgusting to see how people treat others.

Show breeders will promise you the world to co-own. They are just looking for someone to use shall we say as a "incubator". They may give you the dog but they retain ultimate control over the dog, in some cases, breeding it, then having the co-owner whelp the puppies while reaping profit from the pick of the litter.

Some things to think about. I hope that I can save someone else the time, money and heart ache that I went through. Number one thing to remember is that as the co-owner you ultimately are responsible for anything that can go wrong. These long time show breeders seem to live by - "Profit is sweet, even if it comes from deception."

If you are looking for a great pet with a far superior temperament, look past the AKC show crowd and I believe you will be far better off and much happier! Follow the money > AKC hondlers pay $250.00 a year > They are paid a lot of money to run around the ring < they bring in entries by having clients > people stay in hotels > vendors sell food and good , etc. etc. One hand greasing the other. How long do you think somebody would pay a professional handler if they were not winning in the ring? Think about it.

Co-ownership - My experience The following was our original agreement:

Hi Charlie,

I didn't want you to take my question about co-ownership the wrong way or anything. I just don't remember asking how it works.

Mary

On Jun 18, 2011, at 8:37 PM, Charles wrote:
No problem, it works any way we want it too. I always do it this way. She is your dog unless you can’t keep her, then she’s mine. You can’t sell, give her way, euthanize, or spay without my approval, unless mortal injuries make waiting for me inhumane. I always try to go along with what the residential owner wants. If anything happens to either one of us ownership passes to the other without any compensation to heirs. Now on to breeding arrangements. The first litter is to the male of my choice and I pay any fees. I get first pick, you get the rest. The second litter is to the male of your choice and I get second pick. The rest are yours. After that there is nothing due me and she is your dog. If she has turned into some hot show dog, I would like to remain as a co-owner of record but it would be just to get a little reflected glory and if I wanted anything else out of her we would renegotiate it just like a breeding agreement.

If this sounds ok, I will save it just so we can remember what it was.

Charlie

THIS WAS THE RE WRITTEN AGREEMENT AFTER THE DOG WAS WELL OVER ONE YEAR OLD. YOU ARE AT SOMEBODY ELSE'S MERCY AND WHIM. EXTREMELY IMATURE AND CHILDISH IN MY OPINION, ESPECIALLY BECAUSE THEY RE WROTE THE AGREEMENT BECAUSE I BOUGHT A PUPPY FROM SOMEBODY THEY DID NOT LIKE. HOW WOULD YOU LIKE YOUR CONTRACT CHANGED?

Final version. Mary I added a sentence on stud fees for both litters. Consider this the final version and ignore the other one.

Hi Mary,

This is the ownership contract I drew up. Rick has settled down and is fine with it. If anything is unclear or you want to discuss it give me a call this afternoon. I have several vital calls to make ASAP and Rick ran my phone down so waiting to recharge then I will probably run it down again.

If everything is OK as it stands, print two copies, sign and date them and next time we get together bring them down so I can sign and date them. Hopefully this will settle the issue and Ron will become quiet and reasonable for the duration of your ownership on your new puppy too.

CharlieOwnership Contract on Drakyi Moxie of Timberline, A gold Tibetan Mastiff

The primary owner is designated as Mary . The secondary owner (co-owner) is Charles. The dog Moxie will live, for her lifetime, with the primary owner. Moxie cannot be sold or placed in another home without the approval of the co-owner. If no approval of a second home can be agreed upon and the dog has to be placed for unforeseen reasons she will go to the co-owner. Co-ownership will last for the lifetime of the dog or co-owner.
Duties and responsibilities
The primary owner will be responsible for all expenses for Moxie, including food, medical, and show expenses. She will x-ray the hips and elbows, when appropriate, and then continue showing Moxie until her championship is complete if the hips are normal.
The co-owner is entitled to pick the stud dog for the first litter and to take the first pick puppy. All others will be the property of the primary owner.
The primary owner will pick the stud for the second litter and the co-owner is entitled to the 2nd pick puppy. All others will be the property of the primary owner. Stud fees provided by the co-owner.
After the co-owner has taken his second puppy there is no more obligation on the primary owner for any further financial remuneration (including puppies). Stud fees provided by the primary owner.
Both parties agree on one stipulation. There will be no stud services or puppies purchased, sold, or exchanged between the primary owner and Ron Bombliss of Kesang Camp Tibetan mastiffs with regard to this dog only.
Signed Primary owner, Mary ___________________________
Signed Co-owner, Charles _____________________________

Does this sound fair? After paying $1000.00 for an average dog + shipping, I was now expected to give two puppies in return, pay all medical expenses, and show fees!. This would total in excess of 6 or $7000.00. No I would never be a stupid as I was then and hopefully this little bit of "education" can save somebody else the same heartbreak and money.

BECAUSE I HAD BOUGHT A PUPPY AND WAS SPEAKING WITH WITH A BREEDER THEY DID NOT LIKE; THEY REFUSED TO HONOR OUR ORIGNIAL CONTRACT AND STATED THAT THEY WOULD REFUSE TO SIGN OFF ON ANY LITTERS IF I WAS TO CONTINUE TO DEAL WITH THIS BREEDER. (I CAN FORWARD EMAILS TO YOU). I WAS PERFORMING MY PART OF THE CONTRACT ABOVE AND BEYOND. I WENT OVERBOARD TO BE NICE TO THIS PERSON. WE BROUGHT A FREEZER TO HIS HOME, PICKED UP AND DELIEVERED CABLE SPOOLS FOR HIS DOGS, BUILT A WEB SITE FOR THEM, AND OUR FAMILY SPENT MANY HOURS VISITING WITH THEM AT THEIR HOME. WE PAID ALL EXPENSES - VET, SHOW, HANDLER FEES, ETC. FINALLY, WHY DO THESE PEOPLE BASH THIS BREEDER AND PUT STUPID STIPULATIONS ABOUT THEM IN THEIR CONTRACT? WHY DO THEY GO TO SUCH EXTREMES TO GET AND BREED THEIR DOGS? WHY DO THEY TELL LIES ABOUT THEM AND USE THEIR DOUBLE STANDARDS REGARDING EVERYTHING THEY SAY ABOUT THEM? PERSONALLY, I AM THINKING BECAUSE THEY ARE SMART ENOUGH TO KNOW THAT AKC AND THAT CROWD IS ALL "SMOKE AND MIRRORS". AGAIN, ALL BASED ON MY DIRECT EXPERIENCES AND MY OWN PERSONAL OPINIONS.

IN THE END I WAS GLADTHAT I SURRENDED THE DRAYKI BRED GIRL BACK TO THEM BECAUSE IT WAS A VERY BAD CONTRACT TO BEGIN WITH. BECAUSE I WAS NEW TO THE BREED I DID NOT REALIZE THAT I WAS BEING "TAKEN TO THE BANK". I DID LEARN THAT I WILL NEVER EVER WANT ONE OF THEIR DOGS AGAIN, FOR MANY REASONS. I WAS THE TYPE OF PERSON PEOPLE LIKE THAT TEND TO PREY ON. "THE PERFECT VICTIM". HOW AKC BREEDERS|JUDGES CAN HAVE SUCH DOUBLE STANDARDS TO ME SHOWS THEIR TRUE COLORS. THEY WILL MAKE UP STUFF ABOUT NON AKC SHOW BREEDERS, INUENDOS, ETC.; ALL THE WHILE SCHEMING OF WAYS TO GET AND USE THEIR LINES THROUGH THE BACK DOOR. THIS SHOWS THEIR CHARACTER TO ME. I RESPECT PEOPLE WHO GO DIRECTLY TO SOMEBODY INSTEAD OF BEHIND THE BACK AND THEN BACKSTAB TYPE. BUT HEY, THAT IS JUST MY OPINION.

Finally, I find it rather childish that grown ups can act like high schoolers and require somebody not to talk to somebody they do not like. How professional is that? I was performing the contract above and beyond our original agreement which was one sided. Having somebody pay for a dog, medical expenses, and show fees while you act as if you are some sort of ethical, resposible breeder is puzzling to me. I view this as extortion and a way to have others "whelp" litters so that you appear to be something you are not. I am guessing this is a way not to appear as having too many puppies per year at the expense of others. By having others do it for them, they eliminate the label and all responsible.

Disclaimer: The information contained on this site is for information purposes only, and may not apply to your situation. The author, publisher, distributor and provider provide no warranty about the content or accuracy of content enclosed. Information provided is subjective. Keep this in mind when reviewing this guide.
Neither the Publisher nor Author shall be liable for any loss of profit or any other commercial damages resulting from use of this guide.  All links are for information purposes only and are not warranted for content, accuracy, or any other implied or explicit purpose.

A few quotes:

"Forgot to tell you, _ _ _ k took my description of _ s _ s _ i off TM info. He's doing a breeding with _ _ n _ s _. C _ e w _ _ _ _ a this year, guess he didn't want anyone to see he threw a 55 lb pup, cow-howcked and very inferior. K _ _ _ _ os a beautiful girl and I don't want any problems, so my mouth is shut. I'll let it go, he could take k _ _ _ _ _ away from me, like what happended to Mary Holzer. Anyway . . . UNQUOTE.

So should you believe them? I know I do not, especially based on what they say behind the scenes.

And there is so much more behing the show breeders and their deceptions.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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